Ben Jabbawy on how Privy hit its stride through focusing its energy on customer feedback, what problems early stage founders should focus on and they should be trying to please, and why you can never go wrong by providing value (especially to people with proven intent to use your brand).
-The story of how Ben founded Privy
-How Privy found its stride by running out of money
-Changes in email marketing in the last decade
-Finding clarity in establishing your business
-SaaS marketing vs Product marketing
-How to get feedback from customers
-Generating Word of Mouth
-The importance of app integration
In this week’s episode, Jason sits down with an old friend, Ben Jabbawy, the founder and CEO of Privy.com, to talk about how Privy (and email marketing) have evolved over the last decade, and what it was like to found a Saas company at the earliest stages of ecommerce. In the beginning Ben’s business model provided lots of different options to many different kinds of businesses, but it wasn’t until he “got in front of his skis” and had to scale back that clarity struck and he found the principle that he’s built everything on since then: find one kind of customer, solve one kind of problem for them, and expand from there. Ben and Jason share their similar experiences with specializing and focusing on what customers want and need from you, and why being flexible and learning from feedback and data will withstand the test of time, no matter what your business model is.
Ben’s daily podcast: https://www.privy.com/ecommerce-marketing-school
Ben’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jabbawy
➡️ Building Blocks website: bbclass.co
🍍Jason’s twitter: https://twitter.com/Eggroli
Founder and CEO of Privy.com, a Shopify focused email and sms marketing platform. Privy is used by over 500,000 stores in 180 countries and has driven over $10B in sales. In June 2021, Attentive acquired Privy. Host of The Ecommerce Marketing Show.
[00:00:00] Ben Jabbawy: That was like the big turning point for us getting very specific about the customer and anchoring in the strategy of like, you know, foot in the door, and expand later. For any founder the only thing that you should be doing is choosing a customer to solve problems for, and if you can get it really, really close to that customer,
[00:00:20] Ben Jabbawy: that's going to help you accelerate and get to revenue quickly.
[00:00:34] Jason Wong: Alrighty guys, welcome back to another episode. And today I am speaking with a good friend. Ben Jabbawy, founder of Privy.Com. It is used by over a hundred thousand Shopify stores to convert traffic into sales and leads into customers. Ben is also a wonderful podcast host himself of the Ecommerce Marketing School podcast, a daily tactical podcast for brand [00:01:00] founders looking to grow their online business.
[00:01:01] Jason Wong: Ben, welcome to the show.
[00:01:03] Ben Jabbawy: I'm excited to be here, Jason. It's great to be on your show this time.
[00:01:07] Jason Wong: Yes. We talked a couple of times before and then I'm like, you know what? I actually really liked talking to people. Let's start recording it. And so here we are, you are definitely top of my list of people I want to talk to you because your perspective is so interesting from the SaaS side.
[00:01:22] Jason Wong: Most of the people I've been talking to has been on a DTC side, but your tool Privy has been around for how many years now?
[00:01:28] Ben Jabbawy: So I actually started the company in 2012. So, you know, 10 years.
[00:01:34] Jason Wong: Oh my gosh. I didn't know what I was doing 10 years ago. I was,
[00:01:38] Ben Jabbawy: Were you still in diapers at that point
[00:01:41] Ben Jabbawy: or?
[00:01:41] Jason Wong: Yeah, practically, but when I first started my e-commerce store eight years ago, Privy was one of the 10 apps I had on my store amongst like other stuff like free announcement bar or like coupon code editor, stuff like that.
[00:01:56] Jason Wong: Privy is very true and dear to my heart. And so I'm [00:02:00] super excited to talk about like the early days let's, let's take it back a little bit. I've spoken to a lot brand founders about their growth and their success, but the way to approach growth in an early stage for a SaaS too, it's very different.
[00:02:13] Jason Wong: Right? What do you think that's really the main differentiator of promoting a DTC brand and promoting a SaaS tool?
[00:02:19] Ben Jabbawy: You know, I
[00:02:20] Ben Jabbawy: actually don't think there's a ton of difference anymore. No, like I. In either case you're selling to a person and that person is buying either your software or they're buying your, your lashes, you know, like I think channels and some tactics may differ.
[00:02:40] Ben Jabbawy: In B2B, you're kind of anchored around accounts, in, in BTC or DTC you're, you're anchored around like products and carts. But you know, the core philosophies and techniques I've found over the years, have really merged. So they're not incredibly different, [00:03:00] honestly. And I'm happy to chat, chat about the early days and now we did it all.
[00:03:03] Ben Jabbawy: Yeah.
[00:03:04] Jason Wong: Did you bootstrap this company when you first started it?
[00:03:06] Ben Jabbawy: No. So, you know, 10 years ago, you kind of had to build more of the software yourself. Like today I think it's a little bit easier to bootstrap a company than it was back then. And so we, we raised, you know, some friends, you know, an angel money.
[00:03:25] Ben Jabbawy: And then, we raised, over the course of the tenure before we had our acquisition we've we raised a total of $10
[00:03:34] Ben Jabbawy: million.
[00:03:34] Jason Wong: Got it. And somewhere along the lines, you probably ran into some roadblocks of running out of money or?
[00:03:41] Ben Jabbawy: Yeah, for sure. So, so our first kind of round of funding was, you know, just over a million bucks.
[00:03:50] Ben Jabbawy: And, at the time we were using that to build software and simultaneously try to get to revenue. [00:04:00] And there was so much that that happened. Candidly, I feel like I've made every mistake in the book. And part of that was early on, we, we didn't like niche down. We, we thought, okay. The original idea came from experience I had kind of helping my parents with their small business and my wife and, I, I felt like small businesses were going to adopt self-serve technology. And so, you know, that's what Privy was going to do. We were going to help small businesses market themselves and we were trying to serve, restaurants.
[00:04:40] Ben Jabbawy: We were trying to serve, you know, dry cleaners, salons, you know, we didn't focus on any specific type of business. And so we kind of wavered for a while. We had some momentum in the restaurant category, then we've had some momentum in this other category and what it meant was like, [00:05:00] we were kind of building everything that everyone wanted.
[00:05:03] Ben Jabbawy: And, you know, we weren't, we weren't really good at it, candidly for anyone specific. And like, it took us in so many different directions, so we never really found product market fit off that seed round. And what happens as a founder is like, if you're early in your revenue generation and you've raised money, you might be ahead of your skis.
[00:05:28] Ben Jabbawy: Right. And so we were spending money on a small team. I think it was like five, maybe eight people at the time. And the bank account was shrinking every month. Right. And so you're as a founder, you're like, oh man. You know, like I, I I'm generating at the time we were like a hundred thousand in revenue. Expenses might've been like 400,000 a year or something. Yeah. And so it's like, okay, you see the writing on the wall and there's an end-date to your payroll. Right.[00:06:00] And, and we all knew that on the team, we ran a pretty open book, transparent company. That's a big part of who we are today, but, it kind of really forces you to fix things that aren't working to, ask really hard questions and to make drastic changes in the business.
[00:06:22] Ben Jabbawy: So for me, That moment. We actually got pretty close to zero. We had like a thousand bucks in the bank, like having my back against the wall was actually the best thing that ever happened to Privy.
[00:06:37] Jason Wong: I've. I've understood exactly how you felt. I actually have a screenshot on my phone. I saved it in my favorites folder of our bank account in a negative, I think it was negative $459. And, you know, seeing like the insufficient funds email it's, it was normal at two to some point. It really forces you to think of every [00:07:00] other way to raise money. You know, like the Airbnb guys were selling cereal during the presidential convention, to raise money when no one else wants to raise, invest in them.
[00:07:10] Jason Wong: And it really, I think that really defines you as a leader. Like when you have your back against the wall and no money in your pocket. That shows everyone what you're capable of and what your, what your ambitions really are. Right. It's so easy to talk big when you have $10 million sitting in a bank account from VC's.
[00:07:30] Jason Wong: But man, when that hits zero, that's when you start sweating.
[00:07:33] Ben Jabbawy: Yeah, totally. And you know, I want to be clear like the conversation with the team started way before you hit zero. Right. But. I think the, that feeling, for me was, was super interesting because what happened was for the first time, I felt like I had clarity on my business because the investors at the time were off of my back.
[00:07:59] Ben Jabbawy: They were like, oh, [00:08:00] okay. Like this happens all the time. Like Privy couldn't figure it out. You know, Ben and the team worked their butts off. They tried as best they could. And like, see you later. Right. But for me, that was the first time I could breathe because I wasn't fighting, you know, a dime bank account.
[00:08:17] Ben Jabbawy: And I could say like, okay, let's talk to our customers that are really happy and understand, like, why are they really happy? Right. What problem are we solving? What, what aren't they happy about? Even though they seem really happy and it's such a basic thing, but like those conversations without the pressure from investors, without the pressure of raising the next round, without the pressure of, you know, hitting payroll in three to four weeks, like that was really the first time that I was able to do that, which sounds crazy to anyone listening, who has bootstrapped their company.
[00:08:54] Ben Jabbawy: I know it does. And so like, my tune on fundraising has really changed, but I [00:09:00] think, you know, early on for someone that is trying to build a venture scale business, you know, that's where I found myself and it's a classic first-time founder mistake.
[00:09:10] Jason Wong: I want to take a step back and start thinking about, you know, some of the learnings that you've had.
[00:09:15] Jason Wong: Now, or right after the initial funding, was erased, was there anything that you felt like you could have done better as a leader to extend your cashflow or like make the team stronger or like make your roadmap clear earlier on besides like the money being hitting zero in your bank account?
[00:09:33] Ben Jabbawy: Yeah, I, I th a few things. I think this: the strategy of an early stage founder should be, in my opinion, to find a wedge into a very specific market, that is, you know, a big market and choose one problem, solve it better than anyone else and become the best at solving one problem. Right. And, [00:10:00] we went from going broad from like serving restaurants and retailers and, you know, dry cleaning to very specific only we were only gonna serve e-commerce business.
[00:10:12] Ben Jabbawy: And when I was talking to the customers that were seeing value, the ones that love the product the most said, we have never grown our email lists this quickly. And so we, as a small team said, okay, e-commerce is growing like crazy. The value of email is really strong. And if you look at the email marketing providers, none of them offer strong list growth.
[00:10:38] Ben Jabbawy: Right. So like the plan was let's, let's get our foot in the door there. That's our wedge: list growth for e-commerce. And if we're successful at that, like, you know, it's a big enough market that you can get to a million or 2 million or 3 million, whatever it is off of that, if you're successful and your customers love you, then you can expand.
[00:10:59] Ben Jabbawy: And [00:11:00] that, that was like the big turning point for us. So it was, getting very specific about the customer. And, kind of anchoring in the strategy of like, you know, foot in the door, and expand later.
[00:11:14] Jason Wong: That is so, so true. I think like when you first build a product, you like, yeah. I think a lot of people can use this and it's true.
[00:11:21] Jason Wong: A lot of people could use it. But at the same time, when you pitched that to everyone else in the room, they're like, yeah, I think I could use it, but should I really use it? And is it really, for me, like the verbiage on your end is not clear. Your marketing team is like, I don't know how to write the copy. Do I write the copy for a restaurant or do I write the copy for e-commerce people?
[00:11:39] Jason Wong: Because they're looking at different metrics there, they have different goals and they also have very different budget for tolerating apps. Right. So it makes total sense. And it's something that I've definitely seen we do on a DDC front too. Is that on my lash brand, yes, we can make lashes for everyone because everyone has eyes and they could technically wear [00:12:00] lashes.
[00:12:00] Jason Wong: But we found that our lashes works best for everyday people, professionals who need to wear them all day. I talked to our customers and I find out they're teachers, lawyers like working professionals that I didn't expect. I was just looking at social media. I'm like, oh, I think my customer is this. But in reality, people love it because they can wear it for all day comfort.
[00:12:21] Jason Wong: And we started listning on the exact verbiage that they're using. And we found a lot of common things that they're talking about in the product. And we're seeing a lot of common ground in the types of people that are getting back to us. And then we started shifting our marketing angle and our copy because we now know there's a very specific segment of people who absolutely love us double, triple over than anyone else.
[00:12:45] Ben Jabbawy: And you actually find the more focused you get on a specific customer type, as long as there's enough of them to kind of create a business around the easier it becomes. Right? The easier it becomes to write that copy, to think about, Hey, where [00:13:00] does that target customer spend their, you know, nine to five or five to nine, you know?
[00:13:06] Ben Jabbawy: And then, you know, the easier it is to answer those questions, like the more focused you are. You know, from a marketing perspective, from a product development perspective all.
[00:13:17] Jason Wong: Absolutely. I want to fast forward a little bit after you've got the clear angle of how you want to approach a business, who you're building it for, how do you start acquiring new customers? Because you talked to your customers, you know what they like you have that small set of people. How do you start acquiring new customers in the fairly, really early stages?
[00:13:37] Ben Jabbawy: Yeah. So, so what we did was we wanted to think about where do these people spend their time.
[00:13:42] Ben Jabbawy: Right. Right. And so with the shift away from like brick and mortar to, e-commerce only, you know, the interesting thing about e-commerce was that you're kind of sitting either in your basement or your warehouse, if you're big enough thinking about how to grow the business. [00:14:00] Right. You're not at a store worried about like the oven catching on fire, your wait staff.
[00:14:07] Ben Jabbawy: So what we realized was there's actually a bunch of forums and communities online where our target customer was living. And so at the time there was like Facebook, Shopify entrepreneurs. I don't know if you remember that group that had like a hundred thousand Shopify owners in it. You know, I was looking in Shopify forums.
[00:14:31] Ben Jabbawy: I was looking at Squarespace forums, like all of this stuff. And what I would do was a.) I would just try to be a member of that community and like add some value. Right. But b.) Anytime anyone was talking about the very specific thing that Privy did, so in our case, like how to grow an email list or how to reveal a coupon code on your site or cart abandonment, whatever it was, I would chime in.
[00:14:58] Ben Jabbawy: I'd start talking about it. I'd start talking [00:15:00] about techniques for improving, you know, all of that. And that was it. Like, that was how we, we steamrolled. And then, you know, as people got to know me and saw the value that I was adding in those communities, I was able to kind of like add on at the bottom.
[00:15:16] Ben Jabbawy: Hey, like you can get started on our free plan with, with everything we're talking about here, you know? So it wasn't me posting in these places. Just like, Hey, here's what Privy does, you know? It was me just like finding communities of people online, engaging with them when they were asking about the same that I knew
[00:15:35] Ben Jabbawy: very well.
[00:15:36] Jason Wong: So giving out value, hitting up the communities who have the highest intent of using your product and really putting a face to the brand, because you're the founder, you are the champion of your brand. And people respect. That like a founder going out and telling me, Hey, this is a product that I worked so hard to make with my team.
[00:15:55] Jason Wong: And this is how I think my product can solve your problems. It makes sense. And, [00:16:00] it's honestly, it's, I think it's a tactic that will be foolproof and timeless. You can do this over and over again. It just in different mediums, you can take away from the Facebook group, but go into, Twitter. You can go into these panels and interviews and really, really do the same thing over and over again.
[00:16:19] Jason Wong: After you got these subset of customers, it becomes somewhat of a network effect. Right? Like the more people that use it, then more people refer to other people. Right. What other ways have you found to be a really cost efficient way to acquire new customers besides word of mouth?
[00:16:35] Ben Jabbawy: Yeah, so word of mouth was, was huge in the beginning.
[00:16:38] Ben Jabbawy: We fueled word of mouth with being the best at solving that one workflow and offering a free plan that did it with amazing support. That was like key. That was how we got word of mouth going. Then you need distribution, you need consistent, real distribution, you know, so what [00:17:00] we found was like, okay, what are the friction points in getting to value using the original version of Privy. Right? And so if you think about like a list growth tool, which is what we were at the time, you need to be like live on their website, which believe it or not at the time required, like copying and pasting a snippet of code. And then at the time Privy, wasn't an email marketing platform. We are today, but we said, okay, like if you're successful with Privy you need somewhere to use those emails, right? So let's, let's hook up to Klaviyo, let's hook up to MailChimp. Right. And so as a team, we ended up building- our developers built integrations to remove those friction points, right? So we built into Shopify, Big Commerce Wix. Weebly at the time, Magento, we built all these like automated integrations to remove the need, to like copy and paste code.
[00:17:59] Ben Jabbawy: And then we [00:18:00] built into all the email solutions. And what we've found was like, when you build an integration, you get listed in an app store. And that was a major turning point for us because we found some of these integrations. And once we got live in the app store, like some of them might've added like a customer or two a month.
[00:18:18] Ben Jabbawy: Right. But once you built the integration, you don't need to mess with it a ton anymore. Right. So others ended up driving like 50 or a hundred customers a month. And so we found like this combination of, you know, being laser-focused about a specific customer, offering a great free plan with incredible support and being integrated everywhere, drove the business on like just that initial wedge of list growth from zero to $4 million very, very quickly.
[00:18:51] Jason Wong: I think the key takeaway here is that you need to find more ways for your customers to use your product. Like if, if you're doing less growth, [00:19:00] well, they need to use their list somewhere else and building, that, that bridge to make it easier for the end customer.
[00:19:07] Jason Wong: It's one of the keys for growth, right? Like if they're able to see value in your product, but they're like, Hey, if I can get way more value adding Privy to another ESP and I can make more money there's no reason why wouldn't use Privy because at the time no ESP was, was making pop-ups that were as great as Privy.
[00:19:24] Jason Wong: Privy wasn't doing any ESPs of the time, right? You know, it's such a good way to think about. And I think I'm seeing a lot more apps taking that lesson. Like when we think about apps on the app stores today, you're seeing a lot more they're integrating and talking to each other because you need to know, you need to start sharing the data you need to bridge between the apps.
[00:19:44] Jason Wong: And truthfully, I would say like compared to 10 years ago, we have a lot more apps. So we're able to get that integration today with some top tier apps. You basically build a moat around your business and make it a lot harder for people to compete against you.
[00:19:59] Ben Jabbawy: Yeah, [00:20:00] I agree the need to be integrated everywhere
[00:20:02] Ben Jabbawy: is very real now I think at the time, like app store distribution for software only existed on, on Salesforce, but Shopify I think has, has dominated around app store engagement. The ability to kind of enable new entrepreneurs that no one has ever seen or heard of to build meaningful businesses and get distribution way faster than, you know, 10 years ago.
[00:20:30] Jason Wong: Yeah. One thing I want to end up on is talking a little bit on the product side, because you have 10 years of watching that data on list growth and collecting emails. There's definitely a lot of things that you're learning along the way. Right. What was something that was surprising to you that went against your assumptions.
[00:20:50] Jason Wong: Like, oh, I didn't know, ten seconds perform better than three seconds. Just an example. But like, what was that thing that proved you wrong?
[00:20:58] Ben Jabbawy: Yeah. You know, when, when [00:21:00] we were first starting, I had to educate so many brands about, you know, the, the, just the fact that they should have a pop-up on their website.
[00:21:09] Ben Jabbawy: And originally I took the, the tune of like, oh, be sensitive with it. You know wait 10 seconds or 20 seconds, or only do it when they're exiting the site, right. We call that exit intent. But over time, you know, so much has changed in the macros. And, you know, we have a lot of conversion data, over half a million forms completed through Privy now.
[00:21:37] Ben Jabbawy: And what we found is like the trends of consumer behavior on websites has also changed. Right. When was the last time someone spent a minute on your website unless they were completing a purchase, right? It probably doesn't happen a ton. So my tune has changed and our data has changed, you know, to really focus around immediately loading a [00:22:00] welcome pop up for people that are verified as a new traffic.
[00:22:04] Ben Jabbawy: Right. They're not on your email list. They've never been here before. They've got zero page views and they're here for the first. All right, love that immediately. Maybe, maybe three seconds maybe. And then kind of target middle of the funnel folks based on how they engage with you in this visit or over collection of visits.
[00:22:24] Ben Jabbawy: Right? So middle of the funnel, you know, someone who's been near two times, they still haven't purchased, they're adding, you know, 50 bucks to the cart. And their mouse or their mobile phone, you know, they're, they're reaching for the back button. Right. So really thinking about website segmentation, to kind of capture as much of that top of funnel as humanly possible by presenting something immediately on load for a new visitor and then waiting for a couple of really strong cues, based on, you know, number of visits or page views this session.[00:23:00]
[00:23:00] Ben Jabbawy: As well as how much money's in their cart. And they're still not on your email list.
[00:23:05] Jason Wong: And it's wonderful that you could do all that with Privy and this is not an ad, not a sponsor. I, I'm just such a big fan because you're able to be able to get so deep into who to show to, when to show to, and really make an experience that's not blanket for everyone. Because it's true. You shouldn't be showing everyone the same offer at the same time. And sometimes you can go by country, you know, there's so much you can do based on the device, based on how much time they spend, whether or not they've seen this campaign before, or whether or not they're visiting this page or excluding this page, you cannot have a one size fits all solution for a pop-up.
[00:23:45] Jason Wong: And it's putting that, you know, your assumptions have changed over time and it's, it's definitely necessary like think about five years ago, how we thought about Facebook ads. We were like, yeah, you got to do this and this. But man that doesn't work anymore because people are so used to [00:24:00] 15 second videos from TikTok and you know, eight years ago, we're like you have to use professional studio pictures and whatnot, and now people are making millions of dollars of iPhone videos and pictures.
[00:24:12] Jason Wong: Right? So I think as founders, the big takeaway is that we have to adapt and evolve. You know, we don't always know best because what we know right now could change tomorrow can change on a macro level based on trends. One of the biggest fallacies, I would say as a founder is just being too stubborn. You know, it's, it's great that you have a grand vision. It's great that you know what you know, but so much is changing in the world every single second, every single minute that you have to adapt or you're really going to be outdated.
[00:24:44] Ben Jabbawy: Yeah, I agree with that. I also think as trends change and they inevitably do. The one thing, whether it's a pop-up or to your business that has remained consistent for us, is that [00:25:00] a strong offer, whatever that might be is going to be the thing that has the largest impact on your conversion. And so if that's your pop-up and it doesn't mean you need to give away 50% to capture an email. But what you're offering the person, it could be a content download
[00:25:21] Ben Jabbawy: it could be something like that's your biggest lever. And for us as a business at Privy our free plan with great support and the ability to just start using it and get to your aha moment quickly, that is the thing that has not changed about Privy and has a big, has been a huge part of our growth. Even as our products in the market and all that has evolved so much over the last 10
[00:25:45] Ben Jabbawy: years.
[00:25:46] Jason Wong: I love that. My final question for you. It's I like to look into the future and typically I like to ask what you guys are doing next, but I wanted to reframe the question a little bit, you know, as the CEO of Privy, [00:26:00] how do you future proof this business to make sure that it will last for years and years?
[00:26:05] Jason Wong: To last, what is that great grand vision that you have to make sure that happens?
[00:26:10] Ben Jabbawy: I think for any founder, whether you're just getting started or whether you're, you know, after your acquisition, like us, the only thing that, that you should be doing is choosing a customer to solve problems for. And if you can get really, really close to that customer, have very honest conversations the day you start your business, that's going to help you accelerate, you know, get to revenue quickly. I feel the same way even where we are today. Right. So all I need to be thinking about is, you know, brand, founders or, or marketers of DTC businesses, like what are the problems they have. And if Privy can expand on our platform today to solve [00:27:00] more of those problems that are tangential to what we do today, then like, that's great.
[00:27:06] Ben Jabbawy: And so I think that'll, that'll drive more growth. So for us, you know, I think, brands need to solve three problems and you have to figure out how to get traffic to their site. They need to convert that traffic, and then they need to bring, you know, those same people back for repeat sales. And so over the years, we've kind of found expansion opportunities to solve on some of those problems and we still feel there's a tremendous amount of opportunity to, to continue tackling those problems for, the brands that we have today.
[00:27:37] Jason Wong: I love that. And I think building for your customer will always keep your business afloat as long as you're solving a problem that people and there's so, so many people on this platform, and if you're solving a really big problem for these people, you'll always be around.
[00:27:53] Jason Wong: And adapting fast, listening to your customer. You know, it's obviously it's not as easy as saying it, [00:28:00] but you know, you'd be surprised at how many people don't listen to their customers or just thinking that they know best on how to build their product.
[00:28:07] Ben Jabbawy: Yeah and one more thought on that. Like, in the early days I used to do all the support.
[00:28:13] Ben Jabbawy: I'm still very involved in support. It keeps me close to the customer, but as the person who was doing live chat early, you do end up getting some angry customers. That's part of business, right? There's a lot of folks out there and founders out there that write it off. They're like, oh, that guy's an asshole, you know, or that gal is an asshole.
[00:28:34] Ben Jabbawy: But what I've found is, and I picked this up from a book I read from Jay Baer called Hug your Haters, amazing book for founders. When, when you have a customer that is that angry that means they were so hopeful that you would solve a problem for them. And they're so passionate about solving that problem.
[00:28:54] Ben Jabbawy: So usually it's the bad reviews. It's the angry customers that if you just lean into that as the [00:29:00] founder and like actually on earth, what the problem was like, that's where you're going to get the best ideas for growth, the best ideas for how to actually improve your business. And, you know, it took me way too long to realize that, but once we did that was like, that fueled our new
[00:29:18] Ben Jabbawy: chapter of growth.
[00:29:19] Jason Wong: Honestly, I'll just open a new door. I was just thinking through, I need to go back and start reading all my one, two star reviews and reach out to those customers and really figure out what's happening. Because if you think about the people who take the time to go out of their way to go and talk to you on a live chat, or go through their email and leave a review saying something back.
[00:29:38] Jason Wong: Cause they could have just not saying anything and just never buy from you again. But the fact that they took the time to do that, means that they were really hoping that something good could happen. And if you're confident that your product is good enough, go back and talk to them, get them back.
[00:29:54] Ben Jabbawy: Yeah. And I actually like that has converted a lot of those haters into some of our [00:30:00] most loyal customers, because they see the reaction of, of how you're kind of engaging with people and genuinely want to solve problems.
[00:30:09] Ben Jabbawy: So Ben that is going
[00:30:11] Jason Wong: to be, I'm going to leave on a high note. Felt like that was the peak of the podcast. I got so much out of that. It was an incredible time learning from you and you know, one of the things that made me so hopeful for Privy as a business is that I see. Like I see you working at customer support chat.
[00:30:32] Jason Wong: I see you on Twitter, helping people, literally replying to people who have problems with it. When I have some issue, I email you and then you immediately loop your team in and you yourself help me out. And that speaks volumes of how much you care about the business. And I respect what you do.
[00:30:49] Ben Jabbawy: Awesome. Really, really appreciate it. Jason, and so much respect back to watching you do your
[00:30:54] Ben Jabbawy: thing, man.
[00:30:55] Jason Wong: Thank you. On a final note, where can we find you?
[00:30:58] Ben Jabbawy: Yeah, so, [00:31:00] Privy.com. P R I V Y. Me personally, I'm on all social channels @ Jabbawy or check out our podcast if you're in DTC as well, looking for tactics, it's a Ecommerce Marketing Schoo.
[00:31:14] Jason Wong: And I just realized I butcher your last name.
[00:31:17] Ben Jabbawy: It's all right, everyone does. It's all good. I wasn't going to call you out on it.
[00:31:20] Jason Wong: What, where's the origin of that?
[00:31:22] Ben Jabbawy: It's Iraqi actually.
[00:31:25] Jason Wong: I've never seen that. I, well, personally, I'm so sorry. I apologize for that. I should have checked in with you early on. That's all. But I'm actually funny thing to add on.
[00:31:36] Jason Wong: I'm about to leave to the Privy office, to film a master class for you guys.
[00:31:42] Ben Jabbawy: Oh, amazing. That's amazing.
[00:31:45] Jason Wong: Yeah. I I'm meeting with someone on your team. You somehow you guys have a studio down the street from my house. So, after that, if I'm driving over and doing more stuff with you guys, so that's just like a funny thing I want to know, but thank you.
[00:31:59] Jason Wong: Thank you for coming [00:32:00] on.
[00:32:03] Jason Wong: You just heard an episode of the building blocks podcast. If you like, what you heard subscribe below to keep hearing conversations I have with brilliant marketers. And innovators on how they built their best ideas.
[00:32:13] Jason Wong: Now, we want to learn how you can turn your best ideas and build something massive out of it. Visit my website bbclass.co or follow my Twitter @eggroli.
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