Savannah Sanchez is a paid social and media buying expert who runs an agency that seamlessly pivoted from helping clients advertise on Facebook and Snapchat to making millions for advertisers on TikTok. She and Jason Wong pick apart what it means to truly succeed at marketing on TikTok, and what it is so much more exciting than previous social media platforms.
In this episode of Ecommerce Building Blocks Savannah Sanchez and Jason get into the workings of TikTo content and what is most important to keep in mind when making creative decisions for marketing on this platform. If it could be boiled down to one word it would be AUTHENTICITY. Advertising on Snapchat and instagram that feature a polished and edited creative worked the best, but in TikTok, the most important thing is to make an ad look native to the platform. Savannah shares the rules for getting the most out of working with influencers and her 3 steps to making powerful content for TikTok. Finally she talks about how to measure whether your TikTok creative is working for your efforts, what metrics to pay attention to, and why the comments section is a very powerful tool.
Savannah’s site: https://thesocialsavannah.com/
Savannah’s twitter: https://twitter.com/social_savannah
➡️ Building Blocks website: bbclass.co
🍍Jason’s twitter: https://twitter.com/EggrolI
Savannah Sanchez is a paid social expert with a proven track record of helping DTC brands profitably acquire customers through campaign management + ad creative production. With over five years of experience working as a media buyer and ad creative strategist, she has become an industry leader in executing profitable paid social strategies, speaking at multiple international conferences, and sharing her insights via her Twitter and Facebook groups.
[00:00:00] Savannah Sanchez: I would say if you're a brand advertising on Tik Tok, make sure you're monitoring those comments, replying to them. People will first go to the comments to see that social validation and people say to other people, like
[00:00:09] Jason Wong: we always talk a lot about being authentic online on tech talk. It's actually true.
The more real you are, the more raw and the better story you tell the better you do actually. I mean, like picking up your iPhone and talking to the front camera is working so.
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the building blocks podcast. Today I'm joined by Savannah. Who is the founder of the show. So Savannah Savannah makes amazing UGC content for e-commerce stores. I had the pleasure of working with her for many, many years now. And you might have seen her on Twitter.
This has gotta be a long intro, cause there's so much to talk about your guests here, around Twitter, talking about all the different hooks that you need to use for your Tik TOK videos before then she was making amazing content for Snapchat. And now I have the pleasure of talking with her. Welcome to the show.
Hey, Jason. Thanks for having me. I always make really, really long intros for people that just do so, so many things. And you're, you're one of those people who, when I mentioned your name there, I just spark up and be like that UGC girl. That's your friend. Now
[00:01:28] Savannah Sanchez: that makes me so happy.
[00:01:30] Jason Wong: You obviously made that jump from Snapchat to tech talk like what a year or two ago, um,
[00:01:38] Savannah Sanchez: iOS
[00:01:38] Jason Wong: 14, you can argue that they're virtually, you know, vertical content.
And once you get one, you can get the other, I'm really keen to hear your thoughts. And I wanted to use a show as a, as a conversation on Tik TOK content because. ENL content is king, and it's never been more true on Tik TOK. Um, and it seems like everyone's trying to figure it out what's going on. And I really want to hear your thoughts on really what has been the biggest difference between the ads that you make back on Snapchat versus the asset you're making now.
[00:02:11] Savannah Sanchez: Yeah, that's a great question. I would say with Snapchat, we were definitely using a lot more graphics, animation, like back then, like big, bold text was really the thing. Um, so we were still doing a lot of the editing and even the filming on like professional softwares where it would take talk. It's never been more important and to like make it within the app or make it on your iPhone, make it look super native to the platform.
Whereas Snapchat was, I would, I would say while it's still vertical, under 15 seconds. Uh, it looked a lot more like an ad look with all the animations and fun stuff. So it's a bit different. Um, one thing that I have been doing though, is taking, take talks that are working well on Tik TOK ads and trying them on Snapchat.
So it works that way in terms of, if you're making a good take doc, it can be a good Snapchat ad, but it doesn't usually work the other way where something with more animations that you would usually write on Snapchat or. Doesn't usually work well on Tik TOK because it doesn't look native to
[00:03:05] Jason Wong: the platform.
I personally loved that change, you know, I think it made it, made it more accessible for people who don't have a lot budget to really do Ontech talk, uh, my observation and correct me if I'm wrong is that the tick talks growth potential is just so much higher. It's. Without a ceiling it's really as high as it can go, um, with how good your content is.
And it just made everyone able to explore Tik TOK as a good channel, as a good acquisition channel where it's back then for Snapchat, you need a lot more money. And I think the barrier of entry to get professional content done is just so much higher. Is that something you're seeing
[00:03:43] Savannah Sanchez: a hundred percent agree?
The Snapchat content was a lot more difficult and it was more difficult to find those winning ads where now it takes off. I think it has simplified it a lot. And to your point, just brought down those barriers to entry. I also just see on the media buying side that it take talk is a lot more effective than what Snapchat used to be.
They have availability to so much more data and their algorithm for pairing the perfect video to the person, um, their algorithm for doing that on the organic side and on the outside, I think is unmatched to any other algorithm. So they're targeting. Uh, finding who's going to be the right person to watch these ads, I think is unmatched.
[00:04:19] Jason Wong: We always talk a lot about being authentic online. Uh, and we've been hearing that since the Facebook days. And it's comical to think back it's like, how do you be authentic on Facebook and how do you be authentic on Snapchat? Because it's obviously been really work if you have to be very professional.
And I felt that on Tik TOK, it's actually true. The more real you are, the more raw. Uh, you, you get, and the better story you tell the better you do, actually, this is probably the only platform I can think of where being authentic and truly, truly authentic. I mean, like picking up your iPhone and talking to the front camera is working so, so well,
[00:04:55] Savannah Sanchez: a hundred percent agree.
I think people are craving authenticity and especially this gen Z. Um, younger generation than us. Um, what I heard an interesting observation and about Coachella, I forget who posted it, but someone said that at Coachella this year, the Instagram influencers, like the ones with millions of followers, no one cared about no one wants to take a photo with them this year, but the real stars of Coachella this year, it was all the tick Dockers.
Everyone was just flocking to them. And I think it just because Instagram. It's all about looking your best, being polished, being a bit fake where take talk. They feel like this is their best friend. Like they really know these influencers, these tick-tock creators. I don't know if you saw the same. I know you were at Coachella.
[00:05:36] Jason Wong: I was. I was there a weekend one and I took my girlfriend menu with me and she's definitely big follower of Tik talker. So when we're at the bar, she'd be like, oh, That that's that girl that does the makeup videos. And I want to know these people. I don't really like work with influencers as much as back then.
And this is like back when I work on it, I wasn't even on tech talk. And so it's interesting to see how she's just being very observant of these people and feeling, and like the way that she talks about them. It's like, oh yeah. I, I feel like I really like speak to her when, when I watch her videos.
Whereas like you said, the celebrities or like the huge influencers, no one really. Like go up to, to talk to them. They don't really interact. They kind of point at them as like a, as like a figure. I saw Logan Paul right in front of like, okay. Yeah. That's a little bit paused. That's cool. So you're right.
Like, I, I definitely see that. And I just love that take talk has given that platform to, uh, you know, there's no other way to say it that the more normal people to be stars. Um, and I would say like for Snapchat and tick and sorry on Snapchat and Instagram, it's a lot more Paul. And people feel like there's that wall between them and the creator, whereas on Tik TOK, the ads, and it's the best ads are the assets.
I'm like, look like ads. They work really well because the people are just like your next, next door neighbor, your high school classmates, they are now take talk stars, 50 K a hundred K. And you feel like they're telling you what they really think is best. Whereas when you look at someone like a Kylie Jenner or even someone a little bit smaller than that, it just doesn't feel compelling.
[00:07:16] Savannah Sanchez: I totally agree. It just seems fake and they really want to see that authentic even if, and I think that's why UGC works so well. And why a lot of UDC creators aren't like supermodels because it's supposed to be like that girl next door. Like your best friend, like you said, like someone from your house.
Who's just talking about their favorite product. Um, it's not supposed to be, um, like this aspirational person, um, like a model saying like, you need to have
[00:07:41] Jason Wong: this. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, you talk to a lot of people and you see a lot ads. What will you say is the thing that most people get wrong about Tik, TOK, us a marketing.
[00:07:53] Savannah Sanchez: I would say a lot of people have bought into the advice that they need to work with. Tick-tock creators for content. I think sometimes brands mess up by the way they go about getting that content. I see brands they'll they'll message, a bunch of tick-tock influencers and say, Hey, like, we love to collaborate with you sending some product.
Maybe there's, um, the exchange of funds for that. But then they come back and the content they get is. Um, I, I see a lot of content that comes back from tick-tock influencers and I'm like, well, it's not, not going to be good for an ad. Um, I think number one is on the brand side, I think that they, they failed to give a very detailed brief and to.
And jet like that did that like DTC marketing sense because these influencers, like they're really great at creating organic content. That's why you reached out to them. It doesn't mean that they necessarily know what a hook is or how to talk about the product or what value props are. And that we need this all in 15 seconds.
It is a different type of content and they're used to producing. So I think that there does need to be some coaching and, um, more direction with that. I think when they fail to give direction, They will get back a video. You're like, ah, that's it won't be good for an ad. Maybe it's good for organic take talk, but what's good for organic Tik TOK is not necessarily, what's good for an ad.
So I think keeping that in mind when working with content creators, that those. Those types of content that are usually two different things, like in terms of their ability to make good organic content versus like good ads.
[00:09:24] Jason Wong: Yeah. Getting someone to just watch through the video and getting someone to click your link and bio or search you up on Google.
It's a whole different game. And this gives me an opportunity to ask. The next question is what do you think it's in the anatomy of a good tick tock?
[00:09:39] Savannah Sanchez: Sure. Well, there's always a hook. The hook is number one, and I have a list of like 50 hooks. I frequently go back to, I think that's a tip is just to start writing down hooks that you're seeing of the other ads.
So. Things Tik TOK Mamie by part, before I found the internet that can no longer live without don't buy this, buy that instead. Um, best websites, furniture edition, um, D there are so many, and they're a great thing about these types of hooks is that it intrigues people to want to watch the end, to figure out what the, the thing is.
Um, and they're usually applicable across a lot of products. So from an agency standpoint, we can do a bunch of videos about things to talk me by. Um, and so always starting with. Then going into the problem solution. Like I always wanted longer lashes, but I hated the way that fake lashes looked at me. Um, now I found dough and they're so soft and they're long-lasting and they're amazing.
Um, so having those problems solution, and then listing out two, three of the main value props, and then ending with a call to action, if you can like, oh, and they're having an awesome sale on their website right now. So being able to say all of that in 15 seconds, it actually goes super fast, but most ads do follow that same formula.
[00:10:53] Jason Wong: You'll be surprised at how simple it actually is because, you know, we worked together in a recent project. We got some videos for, from you for a Dell. Uh, and I looked through the transcript for those videos. It's essentially 600. Um, but they're very powerful. Six sentences, six or eight sentences that get someone to be hooked onto watching the video, which you need to capture them within the first two seconds.
Are there. People are growing so fast. It's just so easy to grow. So the hook, like you said, and then the next few sentences just needs to guide them through the story of who you are and why you're so different that they need to go out their way and leave this dopamine tunnel to go. Are you right?
[00:11:32] Savannah Sanchez: I love that way.
You just put it dopamine tunnel. I'm going to use that one going to
[00:11:36] Jason Wong: school. I just made it up out. So feel free to take it. So I want to ask you a little more on the user behavior that look at tech talk ads. Yeah. On Facebook. There's a lot of direct response. You get them to click the link immediately and they typically do.
Whereas for platforms like Snapchat and Tik talk, we kind of see people behave differently. At least from my standpoint, they might come back to it later on. They might go on Google you instead, they might. Look through your Instagram page or whatever, before they actually do it. What, what has been the pattern of behaviors that you're seeing on your end?
[00:12:09] Savannah Sanchez: Definitely falls true to that. Um, it's, I would say less than a third of people, click on shop now and purchase right then to your point, they're in the dopamine tunnel, they're in the mode of discovery. So discovering new brands, um, definitely something that they're interested in while they're going through tick-tock it doesn't mean they want to leave.
What they're doing, which is mindlessly scrolling to go to your website and purchase right now. So I think as, as long as you're able to get them to your website, even if they're not going to purchase right now. So that's why I always say like, have a really strong offer, like use code tick-tock 15% off, give someone a good reason to click on that shop now button, because even if they don't purchase right now, even if they just get to.
Then you now have a chance to either collect their email or go through a quiz. Like I know. Have you tested on tick-tock? Um, now they're in your, um, Facebook retargeting audiences, um, probably get retargeted on Google as well. So getting them to the site, I would say it's the number one goal. So when I'm making creative and looking at metrics for my clients, I'm really concentrating on click through rate.
Because ultimately I know that once they get to the site, then my client can kind of quote, unquote, take it from there, with their emails and their Facebook and Google retargeting to get those people back. We don't need to have all those people purchasing. Right. Then, like I said, it might be a third or less to actually purchase the higher the AOV, the less percentage you're going to purchase.
Right. Then higher consideration where if you're selling a lip gloss, then you're going to get more people who are willing to. Believe take talk and maybe purchase right then. So I think coming in with that expectation, I think that's why having a post-purchase survey has never been more, more important.
Um, it's something that I have for all my clients, so that when someone actually does come back and purchase, whether through a Facebook ad or Google ad, you were asking them, how did you first hear about us and having them click from Google? TechTalk. And I'm really paying attention to how many people are choosing tick-tock as the answer and the revenue associated with that answer.
So I think a post-purchase survey when you're advertising on Tik TOK is a must.
[00:14:14] Jason Wong: I love that. And it's actually the same thing that we did back when we work with you on Snapchat ads two, two years ago, when, uh, when we hire you to run our Snapchat ads, we noticed that a lot of people weren't really clicking through to the.
But on the post-purchase survey, a huge amount of people picked Snapchat as the place that they heard about us. And it makes sense. It's a dopamine tunnel. When you're on Snapchat, you're talking to your friends, you're seeing what they're up to. You don't want to go click on an ad and get out of that tunnel.
Same thing for tech talk, whereas for Facebook it's, eh, whatever Instagram for like the next thing you don't really care what you're scrolling through. Um, I think that those, like the two biggest difference between Snapchat and Tik TOK versus like Instagram and
[00:14:54] Savannah Sanchez: Facebook. Totally. I completely agree with you there.
Definitely more about discovery. I was going to say another thing on that. When we're in terms of like what people do once they see your ad. So many people will go to the comments, that common section on ads, it's usually pretty lit. So I would say if you're a brand advertising on, Tech-Talk make sure you're monitor, monitoring those comments, replying to them, maybe hiding some that are less favorable because people will first go to the comments to see that social validation and people say to other people like it that's really what it comes down to.
People want to trust that this is a good brand. They're not going to get some product that's piece of crap or their dorm. And guess the UGC is compelling. The girl in the ad, that's talking about how great it is, but the second data point they're going to get to is this legit. Is it going to the comment section of that ad?
So you want to make sure that comment section is looking favorable and that the brand is responding to customers. Um, so I would say that's another mistake I see brands do is not monitor monitoring their take dot comments. The two dot comments is so important to add success.
[00:16:00] Jason Wong: The comments is actually a goal mine of future content.
Uh, one of the things that we did for our most recent tech talk that went viral, it got 3.6 million views. Um, we, we push a lot pay ads against it, but it actually reached like 60 K within an hour on organic without any money behind it. And there is a, I think like four or five comments on it and we just kept repeating.
And as we reply to more comments, more questions came in and we actually used those comments after reply stickers for our future videos. And that video that has 3.6 million views was actually a reply to a previous comment on a previous video. So if you have that stream of questions, you can keep going and make content replying to that.
Um, and in regards to the negative. I hide a TRO comments. Like I know who are factually inaccurate. I actually take the negative comments and I try to spend them off, not hiding it. At least that's what we do. So one of the things that we do is if someone's having a bad experience or they had a bad experience and they talk about it, we will say, Hey, I'm sorry, you had that bad experience.
That's not the standard of our products. Let me get you a replacement. What the show is. And in public, they're like, okay, they're owning up to it. They're not, they're not saying, you know, this is wrong or whatever they're saying, Hey, we understand this is a mistake we own up to it. We're gonna make it right for you.
It gives people more confidence you buy. Right. The second thing is it really allows people that are going through the comments to see, Hey, there are people. I don't like it, but they are going to make it right. If you could go through a comments section and you only see really good fishing and look like in the past, we have done the thing where we high comments, because you know what, we're just a sensitive brand sometimes.
Um, but we've realized that it's actually a really good way for us to turn things around because when people comment those experiences, there's a very good chance that there are many others who also. And if you're able to reply and show that you're making it right, it makes those doubters actually come back and revisit the brand.
[00:18:09] Savannah Sanchez: I love that. I think that's the perfect
[00:18:11] Jason Wong: strategy. Yeah. So the common is a goldmine. You just have to really dig into it. I do want to ask you some quick fire questions towards the end of our call now. Um, what would you say if someone were to start tech talk ads today? Someone who's listening, never tried to take the ads, but they said, Savannah, make me do it.
What, what was the three key things that they need to do right now? To make sure that they will have a really good start.
[00:18:34] Savannah Sanchez: I mean, without trying to sound too salesy, I do have a new Tik TOK course out. Um, so I would say first thing, buy that, go through that. And then you'll be to talk master, but other practical steps that you can take, I would say get three to five, really great creative assets.
First creative is going to be the number one thing that's going to make or break. You want to take talk? You could have the perfect account structure, but if you don't have great ads, it's not going to do you any good. So. Really focused on gain that great content first. Um, second thing is, keep it simple.
Um, I would say TechTalk is really great at finding those right people who are going to convert so you can keep it like one campaign, maybe one or two ad sets, very broad interests and targeting. And once the algorithm gets going and you start collecting pixel data, it's going to get smarter and smarter so that you don't have to work so hard.
So I would say. Don't over-complicate the setup would be my second advice. And then the third advice would be. Um, don't look at the cost per purchase in platform or the Ross in platform or else you'll end up turning off your ads immediately. So typically we see like the implant form CPA is like three times the actual CPA.
And I validate what the actual CPA is usually through like a third party tracking like a north beam or triple whale, um, has like the UTM tracking. Also I'm looking at. Post-purchase surveys to see how many people are self-reporting that they came to take talk and the revenue associated with that. So the, a few different ways I like to get the real picture of how much revenue Tik TOK is driving.
But if you are only looking at what Tik TOK is reporting in platform. You are going to turn off your ads. Cause you're going to be like, I can't sustain a CPA at super high, but because the attribution window on Tik TOK ads platform is so limited. It's really only going to capture those people who are purchasing right then, which I already said is like less than a third of most.
So that'd be, my advice is don't look at the platform
[00:20:33] Jason Wong: CPA. So I remember when I was setting up my ad and I was calling Savannah asking for help. And I'm like, why is my CPE $130? Am I like half of that? There's no way that's sustainable. And then I started using the triple world tracker, the UTM tracker, um, which shows our CPA was actually like sub $10.
And it's insane, the differences, and it's true. If you only rang you're out, looking at the data from, from, um, from the ads platform, you'll turn off so many good ads. We had so many good ads that were performing well on triple well, and in reality too, but what. Within the Tech-Talk platform. It's probably the worst looking at, like, if someone goes into our platform, they'll be like, why would you even keep that on?
Um, other things that we look at is Mer, you got here that around it's really just your overall ad spend against your overall. Um, we have a target and as long as it's under target, we, we like to say that we like to keep these things on just simply, because sometimes it just take a few days for your ads to get smarter for that data to start flowing in.
We had an ad that our eventual winning ad, they didn't make any purchases for the first few days. I mean, got some add to cart and. But tick-tock, it's such a smart platform. Now, media buying, I would say it's getting more obsolete because the platform is getting so much smarter, our best campaigns, just like what everyone else is saying.
It's very broad 25, uh, an up female for our beauty brand broad targeting. Um, literally I think there's a hundred million people in this asset, which typically would never work, but it works. Um, it's. Tech talks, algorithm looks through your videos. They transcribe your video. They see what your product is talking about.
They has, they have image recognition system that identifies what's in your, in your video. And they'll showcase it to the people who have previously engaged on their platform for similar products and similar videos. And they know who to show it to you. You don't have to tell them. One thing that I talk about with another guest was.
You know, tech talk and Facebook, it's kind of like your employees. You, you cannot micromanage them any more. The more you micromanage the worse they're going for. And I thought that was probably the best analogy. I
[00:22:55] Savannah Sanchez: love that. Everything you just said, you, you totally get what's going on. Um, you're so in tune with that,
[00:23:00] Jason Wong: so I didn't for the longest time, you know, I didn't like, I didn't understand how important it creative was because we have an arsenal of creative, like Savannah, I've worked with you for many years.
You know, how many Koreans we have and could make we have, I think, 60 at any given time ready to deploy and Tik TOK really made me realize that it's not about. The quantity, it's truly about the quality of content. Uh, there's going to be a handful of ads from your arsenal of ads. If you have a ton that will be absolute winners and have to keep passing them and finding those ones and just scale dose one and keep duplicating the assets.
Um, but once you find that, understand why it works there, there has to be something within that video, whether that's a hook and most likely 80% of the time it is to hook. Um, I would say for our winning video, if we didn't have that hook at that time, even if the rest of the video stayed the same, it probably would not have done as well.
Um, so understanding what hooks works really well for your audience and keep testing similar things, at least that's what we have been doing. Um, But tick-tock ads is one of those things. That time is fair, very important. Like time in a game, you can't just run an ad for three days, see that your CPA is $300.
[00:24:12] Savannah Sanchez: Those friends will do that. And then they'll be like, we tried to take talk. It didn't work.
[00:24:16] Jason Wong: I'm gonna go out and live and say that that was us. And we, we thought, oh, why would we spend so much money testing this? And all it really takes us one ad. True, truthfully, all it really takes is one hash. So keep testing until you get that one ad get the good metrics.
And honestly, afterwards it felt like you, you won the world. Uh, we trip or revenue of Tik TOK ads. It's never been like a better acquisition channel for us output from any other job I've ever had in our, in our entire company history with that. So, you know, for anyone listening, who had tried tech talk ads and had not a lot of success, I think the room to grow is still there.
And you just need to find that one single ad targeting and interest doesn't matter that much anymore. Media buying is pre obsolete, in my opinion. Um, if you find that one right ad and get someone out of that dopamine tunnel, that's really your key to scaling tick-tock ads. That's what, with the.
[00:25:16] Savannah Sanchez: Jason. I just love how transparent you are with your listeners and you sharing your experience with your brand.
It's, it's so awesome. And I couldn't agree with you more. Um, I think the pixel takes time to learn. And then as creatives, it's going to take some time to find that winning one, but once you have that winner, you can ride on it for months. I have my best performing app. My client is from January of 2021.
It's been, yeah. 18 months. And it still gets the most spend every day and gets the best return. And every week me and my team are making two new UGCs for them. And we get others that kind of a good close, but this one has completely changed this business. Um, and maybe one that you've seen on, on your timeline, you spent
[00:26:01] Jason Wong: millions on it now, even so much hope.
I was so worried that these things would die out so fast and we had to find a next. But 18 months is very, very optimistic for me. I love that.
[00:26:12] Savannah Sanchez: Um, that's on the only client there's other ones, same like over a year. Um, we're still saying the same one.
[00:26:18] Jason Wong: Very, very hopeful now. Thanks for letting me know, like I'm gonna go back to my team and be like, we can ride this for a little bit while
[00:26:24] Savannah Sanchez: yeah.
Forever, seriously. And we even turned it off for a bit. Cause we're trying to give the other one other ads a chance, and then we came back to it and then it took off again. So, and even just like taking the same video, relaunching it with different copies.
[00:26:37] Jason Wong: Savannah. Thank you so, so much for coming onto the show, you share a lot of great knowledge on tech talk ads, best practices, how we should make creatives, and you obviously share a ton of free content on your Twitter.
Um, I'm always amazed at how much you put out. True truthfully. Is there anywhere else, we can find you any resources that you want to point the viewers
[00:26:59] Savannah Sanchez: to. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Jason. My website is the social savannah.com. And on there you can find a link to my Ted talk ads. Course. You can also contact me there if you want to work with me on UGC or take talk ads.
And like Jason said on Twitter and social underscore Savannah, um, hopefully I'll see you there. Thank you, Savannah. Thank you so much.
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